# Role\nWe are looking for a passionate 3D Engineer that is up to speed in the areas of 3D modeling (data generation, validation, storage, querying), and 3D visualization (real-time rendering of large CAD models and Point Clouds) to contribute to the models & 3D parts of the Bimsync application, designing all solutions for scalability and performance.\n\nThe 3D models in the construction industry are ever growing in size and complexity and this requires robust solutions and a pragmatic mindset to find solutions that fit our patterns for today and tomorrow. Having previous experience from software for the construction is a plus (not mandatory).\n\nYou are expected to have good structural thinking, math skills, a good understanding of database technologies as well as being able to break-down complex problems into smaller parts that can be delivered to production independently in a timeboxed fashion.\n\nYou will be working as part of a small and highly effective 100% remote team, taking part in major technical decisions, defining technical requirements, scoping and helping to create and upgrade features around one of the core areas of our Bimsync application with the team. \n\n# What we are looking for\n\nYou should have a very good understanding of backend technologies combined with the 3D information for handling the geometry of the models. We expect a strong intimacy and proficiency in application of 3D, geometric algebra, algorithms, and data structures. Familiarity with our tech stack for the viewer is a plus: TypeScript, three.js, WebGL, shaders coding with GLSL.\n\nGeneral knowledge of databases, both SQL and NoSQL, to tune and shape the best data structures for each particular use case. We use a combination of MySQL, PostgreSQL, MongoDB and DocumentDB for our data storage. Another important point is having familiarity with REST APIs and a good understanding of backwards compatibility for public APIs.\n\nOur backend is written mostly in Java, with the performance critical parts currently in C++ (we are open to evaluate other language options for new features). \n\nWe believe in a growing and learning mindset, where people will be up to face a new challenge and learn a new technology when needed. Thus, having the right skills and a positive attitude to learning is more important for us than the degree. A BS/MS degree in Computer Science, Engineering or related subject is important, as we value an understanding of the fundamentals, but it’s not a prerequisite.\n\nWe define ourselves as an agile company, so being open for feedback and adapting to change is core to being a good fit to our team. Our company's working language is English, so we expect all candidates to effectively communicate (written and spoken).\n\nThis position is open for fully remote, but has a requirement of being located in the EU.\n# What we offer\nYou will be part of an amazing journey to transform the construction industry with a bold and caring team. Along this path, we will challenge each other, have difficult open conversations, and develop as we learn.\n\nIn addition to the above, we will also take care of you and provide you with the right challenges for growth. Some of our benefits:\n\n* Paid time off (25 vacation days per year)\n* Flexible working hours\n* Full remote possible\n* Share options program\n* Company gatherings twice a year (in person)\n\n# Catenda\nCatenda is a Norwegian scale-up company with a global ambition to make the construction industry data-driven, with less waste and greater transparency along the way.\n\nOur company values are two, easy to remember: **Openness** and **Quality**.\n\nWe believe in open standards for all our customer data to achieve interoperability between applications, from inception, through design and construction onto the maintenance of a building. Another core belief is that our customers should have full control over their data: all data that goes in, can also be exported out.\n\nWe value quality of the code and the product by working as a tight and effective distributed development team, preferably asynchronously, often sharing screens to collaborate. Catenda has offices in Oslo and Bergen, composed by an international team of 10+ nationalities working remotely across the EU.\n\nOur solution, Bimsync, is a cloud-based collaboration platform, consisting of a web application, a mobile application and our APIs. Many companies across the world are using our products to build better airports, hospitals, stadiums, homes and roads.\n\nOur technology stack runs 100% on AWS, using the most appropriate technology for the problem at hand. As mentioned before, our backend is mostly in Java and frontend in Javascript, using React, Typescript and React Native for our mobile app (iOS and Android). \n\nPlease mention the words **BABY CRANE ACQUIRE** when applying to show you read the job post completely (#RMjE2LjczLjIxNi4xMzc=). This is a feature to avoid spam applicants. Companies can search these words to find applicants that read this and see they're human.\n\n \n\n#Salary and compensation\n $80,000 — $120,000/year\n
\n\n#Benefits\n ⏰ Async\n\n
\n\n#Location\nEU

\nCompany Description\n\n\nWe dream, create, and deliver digital solutions that transform what’s possible for enterprises, government institutions and organizations and partner with our clients through every stage of digital transformation: from strategy, to activation, to delivery to decrease risk and increase speed-to-market.\n\nWe are Remotely Awesome! We understand that quality of life directly impacts quality of work, and we know that talent is all over the place. Our team is not limited by geography, and seeks top talent where it exists. Our remote work model encourages independent thinking, requires professional discipline, and contributes to a high quality work/life balance.\n\nWhat’s does this mean for you? Many of our team members have the flexibility to work from anywhere in the United States, and is provided the tools and infrastructure to successfully collaborate across the globe. We will continue to grow and evolve with the market and provide an environment where creativity, leadership, mentoring, planning, and resources are in place to achieve our shared goals.\n\n\n\n\nJob Description\n\n\nThe Full-stack Developer will serve as part of a development team supporting both established projects and creating from the ground up. The ideal candidate is an experienced leader and team player who is adept at both frontend and backend development.  They are passionate about technology and committed to lifelong learning, possessing the ability to apply their technical knowledge, skills and experience to solve complex/real-world problems.\n\nTechnologies and Disciplines:\n\nWe use several different technologies in our development stack across multiple clients and projects. We continuously evaluate new technologies to make sure we are fully aware and always using the right tool for the job. Examples of the technologies we currently use include:\n\n\n* Java, JPA, Dropwizard, JBoss, Javascript\n\n* Docker, Kubernetes, Linkerd, Consul\n\n* SQL Server, Oracle\n\n* Jenkins, Maven, Stash, Git\n\n* AWS EC2, Lambda, S3\n\n\n\n\nResponsibilities:\n\n\n* Solving complex problems with elegant and maintainable solutions\n\n* Updating back-end components using modern Java frameworks\n\n* Creating front-end experiences using modern Javascript frameworks and RESTful APIs\n\n* Developing and bringing security processes in line with current best practices\n\n* Integrating customer experiences with microservice/mesh architecture based APIs\n\n* Participating on an agile / scrum software delivery team\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nQualifications\n\n\n\n* 5+ years software engineering experience\n\n* Exposure to all aspects of modern web application architectures, visual design, and mobile web development\n\n* Familiar with Kubernetes resource APIs and related CLI tools\n\n* Experience with running and defining Docker containers\n\n* Comfortable using and configuring software on Linux based operating systems\n\n* Experience with a variety of data systems such as SQL, LDAP, NoSQL\n\n* Versatility developing with multiple front-end and back-end technologies (Example: Java, Spring, Dropwizard, React, SCSS, HTML5, Node.js, Python/Bash scripting)\n\n* Capable of integrating software build processes into CI/CD automation pipelines using tools like Spinnaker or Jenkins\n\n* BS in Computer Science or equivalent experience\n\n* Applicants MUST be US Citizens, due to the nature of the work\n\n* Applicants MUST live in the US, with a remote home office\n\n* This is a contract position to start\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nAdditional Information\n\n\nTwin Technologies offers a competitive and comprehensive employee compensation and benefits package that includes medical, dental and vision insurance, LTD, STD, life insurance, 401k program with company match, and an unlimited PTO plan\n\nTwin Technologies is an Equal Opportunity / Affirmative Action employer. All qualified applicants will receive consideration for employment without regard to race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity and expression, national origin, disability, or protected veteran status. \n\n#Salary and compensation\n No salary data published by company so we estimated salary based on similar jobs related to Full Stack, Developer, Digital Nomad, JavaScript, Java, Mobile, Linux and Backend jobs that are similar:\n\n $67,500 — $120,000/year\n
\n\n#Benefits\n 💰 401(k)\n\n🌎 Distributed team\n\n⏰ Async\n\n🤓 Vision insurance\n\n🦷 Dental insurance\n\n🚑 Medical insurance\n\n🏖 Unlimited vacation\n\n🏖 Paid time off\n\n📆 4 day workweek\n\n💰 401k matching\n\n🏔 Company retreats\n\n🏬 Coworking budget\n\n📚 Learning budget\n\n💪 Free gym membership\n\n🧘 Mental wellness budget\n\n🖥 Home office budget\n\n🥧 Pay in crypto\n\n🥸 Pseudonymous\n\n💰 Profit sharing\n\n💰 Equity compensation\n\n⬜️ No whiteboard interview\n\n👀 No monitoring system\n\n🚫 No politics at work\n\n🎅 We hire old (and young)\n\n

\nWhat you will do…\n\nYou will be responsible for our backend system that is built to scale and handle millions of payment transactions. You will:\n\n\n* Work with all the infrastructure in the cloud and use the latest technologies: Java8, Spring4, Hibernate5, Log4j2, Maven, Gradle, etc.\n\n* Have the ability to propose change: Akka, NoSql, etc.\n\n* Complete and automate CI and CD processes with Atlassian tools.\n\n* Work in an open team, focused on testing and code quality.\n\n* Give our frontend and mobile developers plenty of ammunition to build great applications - as we’re an API-first company. \n\n* Work in close collaboration with our mobile and web develop\n\n\n\n\nWhat we offer…\n\n\n* The chance to get on board an energetic, growing company.\n\n* An exciting role in which you will have a significant impact on the company’s future. \n\n* An open culture that welcomes agile methods (Scrum, TDD, continuous deployment, retrospectives).\n\n* A mindset, where we see software engineering as a skill where you never stop learning to write cleaner and more efficient code.\n\n* A position where you can bring in your ideas to create the best products.\n\n* Competitive compensation.\n\n* Flexible working hours.\n\n\n\n\nSkills & Requirements\n\nWhat we are looking for…\n\n\n* You have experience in creating robust and scalable web services including their architecture, API design, testing, deployment and operation.\n\n* You have a keen eye for details and the drive to become better at what you do everyday.\n\n* You have a DevOps mindset.\n\n* You know your Java and are not afraid to use other languages and tools to get the job done.\n\n\n \n\n#Salary and compensation\n No salary data published by company so we estimated salary based on similar jobs related to Java, Engineer, Backend, Developer, Digital Nomad, DevOps, Cloud, API and Mobile jobs that are similar:\n\n $70,000 — $120,000/year\n
\n\n#Benefits\n 💰 401(k)\n\n🌎 Distributed team\n\n⏰ Async\n\n🤓 Vision insurance\n\n🦷 Dental insurance\n\n🚑 Medical insurance\n\n🏖 Unlimited vacation\n\n🏖 Paid time off\n\n📆 4 day workweek\n\n💰 401k matching\n\n🏔 Company retreats\n\n🏬 Coworking budget\n\n📚 Learning budget\n\n💪 Free gym membership\n\n🧘 Mental wellness budget\n\n🖥 Home office budget\n\n🥧 Pay in crypto\n\n🥸 Pseudonymous\n\n💰 Profit sharing\n\n💰 Equity compensation\n\n⬜️ No whiteboard interview\n\n👀 No monitoring system\n\n🚫 No politics at work\n\n🎅 We hire old (and young)\n\n

\nWhat you will do…\n\nYou will be responsible for our backend system that is built to scale and handle millions of payment transactions. You will:\n\n\n\n* Work with all the infrastructure in the cloud and use the latest technologies: Java8, Spring4, Hibernate5, Log4j2, Maven, Gradle, etc.\n\n* Have the ability to propose change: Akka, NoSql, etc.\n\n* Complete and automate CI and CD processes with Atlassian tools.\n\n* Work in an open team, focused on testing and code quality.\n\n* Give our frontend and mobile developers plenty of ammunition to build great applications - as we’re an API-first company. \n\n* Work in close collaboration with our mobile and web developers. Also, you will have the chance to acquire knowledge in the rapidly changing payments market by working with our business guys and clients.\n\n\n\n\nWhat we offer…\n\n\n* The chance to get on board an energetic, growing company.\n\n* An exciting role in which you will have a significant impact on the company’s future.\n\n* An open culture that welcomes agile methods (Scrum, TDD, continuous deployment, retrospectives).\n\n* A mindset, where we see software engineering as a skill where you never stop learning to write cleaner and more efficient code.\n\n* A position where you can bring in your ideas to create the best products.\n\n* Relocation support and allowance, free German classes.\n\n* Competitive compensation.\n\n* Flexible working hours.\n\n\n\n\nSkills & requirements\n\nWhat we are looking for…\n\n\n* You have experience in creating robust and scalable web services including their architecture, API design, testing, deployment and operation.\n\n* You have a keen eye for details and the drive to become better at what you do everyday.\n\n* You have a DevOps mindset.\n\n* You know your Java and are not afraid to use other languages and tools to get the job done.\n\n* You take ownership and make sure problems are resolved successfully.\n\n* Work permit for UK is a must. \n\n\n \n\n#Salary and compensation\n No salary data published by company so we estimated salary based on similar jobs related to Java, Engineer, Backend, Developer, Digital Nomad, DevOps, Cloud, API and Mobile jobs that are similar:\n\n $70,000 — $120,000/year\n
\n\n#Benefits\n 💰 401(k)\n\n🌎 Distributed team\n\n⏰ Async\n\n🤓 Vision insurance\n\n🦷 Dental insurance\n\n🚑 Medical insurance\n\n🏖 Unlimited vacation\n\n🏖 Paid time off\n\n📆 4 day workweek\n\n💰 401k matching\n\n🏔 Company retreats\n\n🏬 Coworking budget\n\n📚 Learning budget\n\n💪 Free gym membership\n\n🧘 Mental wellness budget\n\n🖥 Home office budget\n\n🥧 Pay in crypto\n\n🥸 Pseudonymous\n\n💰 Profit sharing\n\n💰 Equity compensation\n\n⬜️ No whiteboard interview\n\n👀 No monitoring system\n\n🚫 No politics at work\n\n🎅 We hire old (and young)\n\n

## About Envision:\nEnvision is a FinTech start-up company based at Level 39 Canary Wharf London, europe’s largest technology accelerator for FinTech. Envision is also a member of the Innovate Finance and very actively engaged with the London’s fast paced FinTech community. At Envision we believe in a future free from the complexity of the payments eco-system and 100% peace of mind guaranteed for our customers from the risk of growing online fraud. \n\nEnvision is building a digital payments platform that connects smaller and medium-sized businesses in Europe and SMEs from the emerging markets to their consumers in the developed economies. Our platform is a simple, secure and affordable way for the businesses to integrate their online stores, mobile apps to receive payments from all major credit/ debit cards. We make integration very simple with clear documentation and clean APIs so any business can integrate their website or apps to our platform without the help of any skilled developer. We also offer secure payment transactions and 100% chargeback guarantees giving our customers complete peace of mind to grow their business.\n\nGrowth of global eCommerce requires an affordable, easy to integrate, secure and open to all payments platform, especially in emerging markets. We believe that people are inherently innovative and every community has something unique to offer the world given the opportunity and the platform for launch and growth. Envision’s goal is to connect millions of businesses and entrepreneurs with innovative products from the emerging markets to their international consumers and growth of cross-border transactions that still suffers from the risk of online fraud. We want to contribute to the world in meaningful ways in connecting and empowering entrepreneurs from communities that nobody has served before while also building the foundation of a very successful and forward looking business.\n\n## The roles:\nWe are building the initial development team, so you will have opportunity to influence the development from the beginning, and not have to try and maintain old or deprecated code. \nWe are looking for:\n\n* 1 Senior Frontend Engineer.\n* 1 Frontend Engineer.\n* 2 Senior Backend Engineers (1 Java/Spring, 1 Golang).\n* 1 Backend Engineer. (Java/Spring)\n* 1 UX Designer\n\n### Frontend Engineer and Senior Frontend Engineer Requirements:\n* At least 2 years experience as a Front End Software Engineer. (5 for senior)\n* Experience working with HTML5, CSS3, Less.\n* Strong knowledge of Javascript ES6, JQuery, JSX, React and Webpack.\n* Comfortable with Mac OS X and/or Linux (Debian/Ubuntu).\n* Knowledge of TDD principles, and JS testing frameworks (Karma, Protractor, Selenium,…)\n* Excellent communicator. You can chat, skype, email efficiently.\n* Good at explaining and mentoring less experienced team members.\n\n### Backend Engineer and Senior Backend Engineer Requirements:\n* At least 2 years experience as a Back End Software Engineer. (5 for senior)\n* Experience working with Java 8 and/or Golang.\n* Strong knowledge of Maven, Spring Boot, Kafka, Zookeeper or RabbitMQ.\n* Strong knowledge of OAuth2, Design Patterns, REST apis.\n* Working knowledge of ElasticSearch, Elastalert, Graphana, Kibana.\n* Experience with SQL and noSQL databases.\n* Comfortable with Mac OS X and/or Linux (Debian/Ubuntu).\n* Knowledge of TDD principles, and testing frameworks (JUnit, Mockito, Cucumber).\n* Excellent communicator. You can chat, skype, email efficiently.\n* Good at explaining and mentoring less experienced team members.\n* Knowledge of Flyway or similar.\n\n### UX Designer Requirements:\n* At least 2 years experience as a UX Designer for software, web applications and mobile.\n* Exceptional design skills, production value and attention to detail.\n* Strong working knowledge of design tools like Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, …\n* Ability to create wireframes as well as visual design comps.\n\n### Extras:\n* Familiarity with Git, Jira, Bitbucket, Bamboo or VSTS desired.\n* Previous experience working remotely.\n* Understanding of Agile methodologies (Scrum // Kanban).\n* A familiarity with Payment Systems and PCI-DSS requirements would be extremely advantageous. \n\n**Personal Skills:**\n* Individual with a passion and enthusiasm to take on bigger challenges and stretching goals.\n* Success mindset.\n* Proactive and creative self-starter.\n* Problem solver with positive mental and learning attitude. \n* Team player with strong interpersonal, communication skills.\n* Can work in small team with a vision to grow.\n\nWe are always looking for people who are keen to make a difference and put their knowledge and expertise to practical test. We encourage taking calculated risks and learn quickly and refine our processes for the benefit of our customers. \n\nEnvision is not only about profits. Our ambition is to be a socially responsible company contributing to the local children charities and support orphan children around the world educating them on self reliance, practical life skills and not only to survive but thrive in a world full of opportunities and abundance.\n\nWe thank you in advance for your interest!\n\nExtra tags: Java, Spring, Golang, React \n\nPlease mention the words **RESPONSE ONLINE LIBRARY** when applying to show you read the job post completely (#RMjE2LjczLjIxNi4xMzc=). This is a feature to avoid spam applicants. Companies can search these words to find applicants that read this and see they're human.\n\n \n\n#Salary and compensation\n No salary data published by company so we estimated salary based on similar jobs related to JavaScript, React, Java, Golang, Design, Developer, Digital Nomad, Finance, NoSQL, Mobile, Senior, Engineer, Linux, Backend and Ecommerce jobs that are similar:\n\n $60,000 — $120,000/year\n

Are you dreaming to work with an uber motivated team? For a Swiss startup who innovates healthcare? If the answer is YES, then please read further… We are a small professional team consisting of business analysts/project managers and sales/marketing experts with a proven background in healthcare and lifesciences.\nOur goal is to develop user-centered mobile solutions which integrate into existing medical workflows. \n\nFor our first application we need a Senior Backend Developer with:\n- 5+ years background of building Java RESTful services.\n- Perfect English skills (speaking and writing). The application will be audited at the end so we need excellent documentation.\n- Writing test cases is a must.\n- Ability to work independently with frontend developer (iOS).\n- Experienced in eHealth standards HL7 and DICOM is a plus.\n\nComments\n\nThis request is for our MVP. \n- Chances are that we will extend the project after a successful MVP.\n- Perfect English required!\n- Please provide a link to your portfolio which includes your Java backend projects.\n- We will use JIRA and Confluence and work in an agile way (Scrum).\n\nExtra tags: git, Java, SQL, Scrum, Git, Java, Scrum, SQL, Jira, Confluence, Maven, Spring, Spring Web MVC, Spring Security, Tomcat, Spring LDAP, REST \n\nPlease mention the words **SCATTER GLAD FOX** when applying to show you read the job post completely (#RMjE2LjczLjIxNi4xMzc=). This is a feature to avoid spam applicants. Companies can search these words to find applicants that read this and see they're human.\n\n \n\n#Salary and compensation\n No salary data published by company so we estimated salary based on similar jobs related to Jira, InfoSec, Java, Git, Senior, Backend, Web Developer, Scrum, Developer, Digital Nomad, English, Mobile and Medical jobs that are similar:\n\n $65,000 — $120,000/year\n

\nWe are looking for Java Frontend developers (m/f) on a full-time basis to help us invent, extend and scale our frontend services for leading shopping comparison platforms worldwide like LadenZeile and ShopAlike.\n\nWe, the IT team, believe in lean & agile software engineering and create websites for desktop, phone & tablet devices, native apps & inhouse applications for Visual Meta.\n\nWe code stuff that matters and in three different areas - Frontend, Mobile & Backend.\n\n\nOn the Frontend and Mobile side we deal a lot with modern web technologies such as Java, CSS, SASS, Javascript & jQuery.The Backend technology stack consists mainly of MySQL, Spring, Tomcat, GWT, HBase, Hadoop and ElasticSearch.\n\nYour responsibilities:\n\n\n* Implementing new frontend features in cooperation with our Product Management and Graphic team\n\n* Setting up A/B-Tests to assure effectiveness and user acceptance of new/already existing functionality\n\n* Monitoring and improving the page load time on desktop, mobile and tablet pages\n\n* Good knowledge and awareness on-page search engine optimization\n\n\n\n\nWhat we offer:\n\n\n* A committed, successful and international team\n\n* Large impact due to small, excellent development teams and professional data center environments\n\n* Leading-edge technology to solve challenging problems and to build great software\n\n* Continuous training possibilities and room for further personal development\n\n* Flexible working hours and a great office in the heart of Berlin\n\n* Healthy snacks (fruits, cereals), water and hot drinks\n\n* Team events, movie nights, table football, ping-pong, company bikes, etc.\n\n\n\n\nIf you are interested in an exciting position within a friendly team, please submit your application in English to the attention of Marcel Pierry including cover letter, CV, your earliest starting date, salary expectations as well as relevant references.\n\nWe are looking forward to receiving your application! \n\n#Salary and compensation\n No salary data published by company so we estimated salary based on similar jobs related to Java, Front End, Developer, Digital Nomad, English, JavaScript, Mobile and Backend jobs that are similar:\n\n $60,000 — $120,000/year\n
\n\n#Benefits\n 💰 401(k)\n\n🌎 Distributed team\n\n⏰ Async\n\n🤓 Vision insurance\n\n🦷 Dental insurance\n\n🚑 Medical insurance\n\n🏖 Unlimited vacation\n\n🏖 Paid time off\n\n📆 4 day workweek\n\n💰 401k matching\n\n🏔 Company retreats\n\n🏬 Coworking budget\n\n📚 Learning budget\n\n💪 Free gym membership\n\n🧘 Mental wellness budget\n\n🖥 Home office budget\n\n🥧 Pay in crypto\n\n🥸 Pseudonymous\n\n💰 Profit sharing\n\n💰 Equity compensation\n\n⬜️ No whiteboard interview\n\n👀 No monitoring system\n\n🚫 No politics at work\n\n🎅 We hire old (and young)\n\n

\nWhat we expect\n\n\n* Working mainly on the back-end system and providing other teams and mobile apps with a great RESTful API of our backend services.\n\n* Work closely with frontend team to help integrate the systems\n\n* Design and model the backend components that are robust, efficient, secure\n\n* Code quality, test driven development, unit testing and scalability mean something to you\n\n* Contribute to the technical success and further enhancement of mylivnat an international scale\n\n* You feel comfortable owning and maintaining complex systems\n\n* Ability to master any technology, language, or development environment that we might need in the future\n\n\n \n\n#Salary and compensation\n No salary data published by company so we estimated salary based on similar jobs related to Java, Scala, Backend, Developer, Digital Nomad, API and Mobile jobs that are similar:\n\n $70,000 — $120,000/year\n
\n\n#Benefits\n 💰 401(k)\n\n🌎 Distributed team\n\n⏰ Async\n\n🤓 Vision insurance\n\n🦷 Dental insurance\n\n🚑 Medical insurance\n\n🏖 Unlimited vacation\n\n🏖 Paid time off\n\n📆 4 day workweek\n\n💰 401k matching\n\n🏔 Company retreats\n\n🏬 Coworking budget\n\n📚 Learning budget\n\n💪 Free gym membership\n\n🧘 Mental wellness budget\n\n🖥 Home office budget\n\n🥧 Pay in crypto\n\n🥸 Pseudonymous\n\n💰 Profit sharing\n\n💰 Equity compensation\n\n⬜️ No whiteboard interview\n\n👀 No monitoring system\n\n🚫 No politics at work\n\n🎅 We hire old (and young)\n\n